Comments on: Reflections on the Deity of Christ – The Word of God http://eclecticchristian.com/2009/01/27/reflections-on-the-deity-of-christ-the-word-of-god-part-a/ Learning to appreciate the many different facets of Christianity Fri, 03 Feb 2012 00:50:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: mikelioso http://eclecticchristian.com/2009/01/27/reflections-on-the-deity-of-christ-the-word-of-god-part-a/#comment-593 Sun, 08 Feb 2009 20:21:35 +0000 http://eclecticchristian.com/?p=604#comment-593 Thanks for your reply Mike. You are right, calling Christmas Christmas before Jesus would be a bit of an anachronism ;) The Asherah/Wisdom association is speculative, a sentence written on a scrap millinia ago doesn’t make a case. But I am intrigued by the prospect of trinitarian like ideas being present among the Jews before the Greek philosophers. I had before thought that the trinity was utterly against Jewish thinking and something new so Christians could justify worshiping a man. I think now that it may not be without precedent, and while some claim that Paul did not preach Christ as God, I have to admit that some of his language virtually puts Christ on that pedestal.

Sorry about the long winded post, but I haven’t had a chance to have these sorts of discussions since my sunday school days, thanks again guys.

]]> By: Eclectic Christian http://eclecticchristian.com/2009/01/27/reflections-on-the-deity-of-christ-the-word-of-god-part-a/#comment-581 Sun, 08 Feb 2009 05:44:28 +0000 http://eclecticchristian.com/?p=604#comment-581 Hi Mike,

Thanks for your comments. Sorry about the delay in posting and responding.

I do have a few issues with your choice of words. Not sure if they are intentional or not, but they convey a meaning with which I am not comfortable.

For example: “Like the Christian appropriation of Christmas to work in a popular pagan practice.” Christians did not appropriate Christmas, rather they appropriated pagan fesitival days, and used those days for their own purpose, the celebration of Christ birth.

Secondly, you write that “wisdom as creator replaces the extremely popular Asherah. I think she was being viewed as not merely YHWH’s wife but as his creative spirit… Note that in the quotes found its not YHWH and his wife Asherah, but “his Asherah” like she is an attribute of him. ”

In scripture, the worship of Asherah was widely condemned. The associated of Yahweh and Asherah, while attested to outside of scripture, is not present in Scripture. The Jews constantly had to struggle against syncretism, and the
introduction of other Gods. Did they use the “wisdom” of God as a way to get away from Asherah? Seems somewhat speculative, although not outside the bounds of possibility. Who these people were outside of scripture who associated Yahweh and Asherah? I don’t think it really matters, because it was a association that does not occur in scripture, furthermore, the worship of Asherah is condemned.

However, I do like your final lines: “Reason and wisdom personified gave the Apostles a framework for worshiping something that seems separate from God without violating the rule that God is one. I’m not sure though if equating Jesus of Nazareth with God’s mind is completely satisfactory.”

Whereas, reason is associated with Christ, I believe that wisdom, is more often associated by the Church Fathers with Spirit. I will look at that a little bit more when I get into the Church Father posts.

Mike Bell

]]> By: mikelioso http://eclecticchristian.com/2009/01/27/reflections-on-the-deity-of-christ-the-word-of-god-part-a/#comment-577 Sun, 08 Feb 2009 00:21:09 +0000 http://eclecticchristian.com/?p=604#comment-577 The terms “Word” or “Logos” used as titles seems a little misleading. The meaning of Logos seems to be, as Tertullian points out, God’s reason. His Mind. In the philosophy contemporary of the time it was thought that since God made everything in the universe, he couldn’t have any of the qualities of the universe since they did not exist before Him. They felt there had to be a kind of buffer between God, who doesn’t exist in any way we normally define things as existing, and this universe we inhabit. That buffer was god’s reason or wisdom. It’s the reason why things are the way they are, the laws of nature in a sense.

The Jews were paralleling the Greeks in these ideas. you can see in Jeremiah 10:12 where God makes the world with his power, wisdom, and understanding. I’m not sure if you could really say that a person and their mind are really distinct entities in a real way.

I think though for some early Jews it was a a useful way of working up a kind of feminine counterpart to God as His Wisdom(like its Greek counter part Sophia, a feminine word). Like the Christian appropriation of Christmas to work in a popular pagan practice, Wisdom as creator replaces the extremely popular Asherah. I think she was being viewed as not merely YHWH’s wife but as his creative spirit. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah#In_Israel_and_Judah

Note that in the quotes found its not YHWH and his wife Asherah, but “his Asherah” like she is an attribute of him. So Wisdom lets you have a female aspect of God with out all the pornographic idols associated with Asherah. Reason and wisdom personified gave the Apostles a framework for worshiping something that seems separate from God without violating the rule that God is one. I’m not sure though if equating Jesus of Nazareth with God’s mind is completely satisfactory. I’ll have to read the rest of your articles. Once again thank you for your site and the time you put into it.

]]> By: Eclectic Christian http://eclecticchristian.com/2009/01/27/reflections-on-the-deity-of-christ-the-word-of-god-part-a/#comment-496 Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:40:58 +0000 http://eclecticchristian.com/?p=604#comment-496 Thank you for the kind words Cynthia. I just wish I could put these out a “little” faster. I guess that is what happens when you have three kids and a full time job.

Mike Bell

]]> By: Cynthia http://eclecticchristian.com/2009/01/27/reflections-on-the-deity-of-christ-the-word-of-god-part-a/#comment-495 Wed, 28 Jan 2009 06:02:57 +0000 http://eclecticchristian.com/?p=604#comment-495 I greatly enjoy when scripture is broken down and discovered slowly like this. It is what I crave. As a life long follower of Christ , things become familiar, Your series is giving me food for thought.

]]> By: Reflections on the Deity of Christ - Introduction « Eclectic Christian http://eclecticchristian.com/2009/01/27/reflections-on-the-deity-of-christ-the-word-of-god-part-a/#comment-494 Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:09:55 +0000 http://eclecticchristian.com/?p=604#comment-494 [...] The Word of God: Part A [...]

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