An Ideal Evangelicalism?

Dec 15, 2008

By Michael Spencer (iMonk)

Moderators note:  Michael has graciously allowed us to repost this article at Eclectic Christian.

Somewhere in the previous orgy of comments I’ve had this week, someone asked me to write about “What do you see as the ideal evangelicalism?”

There is no ideal evangelicalism and there’s not going to be. It’s certainly not going to be ideal if I am the architect. So let’s not get out of hand here. I’m a blogger, which tells you about all you need to know on the subject of my credibility.

But that won’t stop me from answering the question in a slightly different form: “What would make for a much better evangelicalism?”

I promise the answers are going to be short.

Read the rest of this entry »


Counting Canada’s Christians – Part 2 – Anecdotally

Sep 2, 2008

Recently I was asked by someone to comment on his statement that “Roman Catholics are not Christians.” I find that this is a blanket statement with which I do NOT agree. I wish to show evidence for my disagreement both statistically and anecdotally.

In the first part I looked at the question statistically, primarily using data from Statistics Canada, and from the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada.

In this second part I will focus on an anecdotal analysis.

2. Andecotal Analysis

I feel I need to offer a bit of a disclaimer, largely because of some comments that I got in part 1. I am not a Catholic, I am an Evangelical Protestant. I am not a Catholic because there are a number of Catholic doctrines that I do not believe in, and what I believe is very important to me. In my mind, some of these differences are significant, others are minor. I don’t feel it is important to list the differences here as I don’t really want to get into arguments about what should or shouldn’t be in the lists.

I would also like to reiterate from part 1, that salvation is found only through faith in Jesus Christ. What I like to look for in a person, is a definite commitment to faith in Christ, adherence to the early basic creeds of Christianity (I am sorry, but if you don’t affirm the divinity of Christ then you are not a Christian), and I look for the fruit of the Spirit. (Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, Self control) Of course, only God knows a person’s heart, and when the final judgment comes I am sure that I am going to find surprises on both sides of the ledger.

In that final judgment, one of my biggest surprises is going to be how many things I got wrong. Even in those areas where I am pretty sure I have my theology right there is likely to be a few shocks.   So when I write what I write, I do it with a certain amount of humbleness knowing that just because I disagree with someone, doesn’t mean that I am right.  The other person may be right, or we may both be wrong.

Much of my theology I find has been shaped by reaction against what I have seen in my own previous traditions.  I have found that those who have left a particular tradition tend to be its strongest critics as they are so focused on what was bad in their old tradition that they cannot see the good.  As anyone who has read my profile knows, I have appreciated much from the various traditions to which I have been exposed, but in some cases it took a long time to focus on the good that I experienced in a particular tradition, and focus less on the bad.  This tendency to focus on the negative of a previous tradition was very well described by C. Michael Patton in his post Converting from Evangelicalism a few weeks ago.  He wrote:

From what I have seen, converts are sometimes the most unable to see things with a balanced perspective. Because of their belief that their previous faith commitments betrayed them, they approach issues as “enlightened” warriors against those former allegiances. The problem is that they normally wear their bitterness on their sleeve and this further taints the glasses that they think they are not wearing.

He goes on to say that:

Misrepresentation, ironically, abounds in these circumstances. They feel as if being a convert gives them a pass to say anything they want. “Don’t tell me what they believe, I used to be one!”

So how does this relate to this post.  I have known both Evangelicals who have become Catholics and Catholics who have become Evangelicals.    I have been told by some former Roman Catholics what Roman Catholics believe.  Are they accurate in their assessments?  I really am not a good one to judge, as I have so little experience in this area, but my feeling is that generally their objectivity has been been clouded by their previous experiences.

Take the topic of Mary worship for example.  Do Catholics worship Mary?  Some former Roman Catholics say yes.   Catholic doctrine says no, she is to be venerated but not worshipped.  Maybe some do worship Mary, but my own experience has been that the Roman Catholics that I have come in contact with over the years have not done so.

Let me introduce you to two of them.

Read the rest of this entry »


Counting Canada’s Christians – Part 1 – Statistically

Aug 28, 2008

Recently I was asked by someone to comment on his statement that “Roman Catholics are not Christians.” I find that this is a blanket statement with which I do NOT agree. I wish to show evidence for my disagreement both statistically and anecdotally. In this first part I will focus on a statistical analysis.

1. Statistically

There are obviously many ways to enumerate the numbers of Christians. The first would be that of self identification, that is people who self-identify with denominations that self-identify as Christian. Statistics Canada conducts a census every five years. A question on religion is only asked every ten years. The last time this question was asked was in 2001. Here are the numbers from Statistics Canada.

Total population 29,639,035
Catholic 12,936,905 43.65%
Protestant 8,654,850 29.20%
Christian Orthodox 479,620 1.62%
Christian not included elsewhere 780,450 2.63%
Muslim 579,640 1.96%
Jewish 329,995 1.11%
Buddhist 300,345 1.01%
Hindu 297,200 1.00%
Sikh 278,410 0.94%
Eastern religions 37,550 0.13%
Other religions 63,975 0.22%
No religious affiliation 4,900,090 16.53%

According to the table above, the total number of people in Canada who would identify themselves as Christian is 77.1%, a little more that three quarters of the population.

However, we cannot stop there.  In the words of Keith Green, “Going to church doesn’t make you into a Christian any more than going to McDonalds makes you into a hamburger.”  And who is to say that those who self-identify even go to church?

It was for this reason that the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada, along with the Ipsos-Reid polling firm, co-sponsored surveys in 1996, 2003 and 2007 to determine the percentage of Evangelical Christians in Canada.  After consulting with a number of Evangelical leaders, they came up with the following criteria that they felt would determine if someone was an Evangelical Christian.

Read the rest of this entry »


A Challenge to Fellow Bloggers – Focus on the Positive

Jul 2, 2008

Although I am fairly new to blogging (four month), I have been doing it long enough to see some disturbing patterns. The pattern that gives me the most concern is the tendency to criticize others theology or practice of faith.

In just the last few weeks I have had my somewhat baptistic view of communion called “inadequate” and “profane”. I have had my preferred style of worship (contemporary) referred to as “happy-clappy”, “Jesus-is-my-boyfriend”, and described as “Christian pornography” (because of its experiential nature.)

The other disturbing aspect of this trend was how many people were willing to support this type of blogging. I found several links to the “worship equals Christian pornography” posting, many of whom had made the title more explicit and labeled as a “must read”.

Read the rest of this entry »


12th Festival of Christian Reconciliation – Now posted

Jun 29, 2008

CarnivalThe 12th Festival of Christian Reconciliation is now live with some really interesting posts. I am excited that there are Christians out there actively working to break down the walls between us.


Christian Reconciliation

Jun 11, 2008

CarnivalOne of most positive things that Eclectic Christian has seen on the net has been bloggers working together to promote Christian Reconciliation. Over the past year and a half there have been eleven “Christian Reconciliation Carnivals” that have had submissions from bloggers promoting various ways that Christians can understand each other better.

A call has just been made to request submissions for the 12th festival. The topic of the month is along the lines of “discerning the source of division”.

Here are the rules and regulations for making a submission.

Each “carnival” has general interest submissions, carnival topic submissions, questions and answers, as well as respectful debates about various issues. Here is a listing of the past carnivals along with the primary carnival topic.

Read the rest of this entry »


Why I am an Eclectic Christian – Guest Blog

Jun 7, 2008

The following post is by guest blogger Mitch Sylvia, easily the most Eclectic Christian I know:

One of the great failings of the Christian Church has been its inability to achieve unity. By Christian unity I do not mean cookie-cutter Christianity where we all think alike and share the same opinions about everything. There will always be room for differences of opinion on secondary issues. By secondary issues I refer to those matters that lay outside the core doctrines of the Christian faith.

In a previous post, my friend Michael Bell has referred to the Apostles’ Creed and the Nicene Creed as a framework for defining essential Christian doctrine. As these documents attest, the Christian faith is a doctrinal faith – certain beliefs must be affirmed if one is to genuinely be called a Christian. As these creeds affirm; there are many things which unite us as Christians.

My own Christian journey has been extremely eclectic and focused on the beliefs which unite the Body of Christ. This is why I have been asked to write a guest post to chronicle a bit of my spiritual journey. Read the rest of this entry »


The Eclectic Church

Jun 4, 2008

By Michael Bell and Peter Heath

Michael Spencer over at jesusshaped.wordpress.com laments about the division within the church. He writes:

Most of what we call churches behave as if they are the true church finally arrived, and the guy three doors down is someone getting it all or mostly wrong. Evangelicals reinvent the faith and the church every time they get bored. In the proliferation of churches in small communities in my part of the world, the differences are primarily stylistic, not substantial.

The comments to the post show that this is a frustration that is shared by many.

I had been meaning to write about this topic for some time, but from the other side of the coin, because as an Eclectic Christian I am interested in ways that believers and churches can work together.

In the heart of the Muslim world lies a very unique church. Here is a recent article about the church from the outside perspective of the Gulf News.

Evangelical Community Church of Abu Dhabi

Read the rest of this entry »


Learning from a Papal visit

May 25, 2008

Pope Benedict XVI
A couple of weeks ago my Pastor wrote an excellent post about the recent Papal Visit to the United States. He noted that there were several positive thing that he observed during the visit. Among them he noted that the Pope was theologically engaging, showed humility, denounced evil, encouraged young people to follow Christ, and in his final mass ” much of what the pope said there could just as well have been said by Billy Graham.”

Pastor Dieter also noted that the while the Pope spoke of unity, he spoke of it within the bounds of scripture and tradition.

Catholics believe that the declaration of what is truth and what is correct teaching is a privilege reserved to the “Magisterium” i.e. the teaching authority of the church. In other words , individual catholics do not have the right to decide for themselves what is sound doctrine and what is not. And truth is determined not only from Scripture, but Scripture AND tradition, which takes into account the body of teaching of the church, as handed down from generation to generation. So when the pope says that unity can take place only in the context of truth, the question arises, truth by whose standard?

Read the rest of this entry »


How does a Baptist define heresy?

May 13, 2008

A recent post on a catholic site asked how Baptists would define heresy. I thought I would take a crack at responding. Here are my thoughts on the issue.

Although the Baptist cry is “sola scriptura” (the bible only), the fact remains that many Baptists are interested in the Church Fathers because they have an interest in what the church looked like in the early days.

Historically, because of persecution, there has been a distrust of the state sponsored church, so when a Baptist looks at the early church, the role of the emperor Constantine appears to be a dividing line for what they will accept as uncorrupted theology.

So for a Baptist, scripture plus the first 300 years of the church largely defines what we have in common with other types of churches. What the church believed is summarized by the Apostles creed and the Nicene creed (both the 325 and 381 versions), all of which I have heard recited in Baptist, or baptistic churches. Read the rest of this entry »


Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.