Experiences of a First Time Visitor to Church

Jan 1, 2009

By Michael Bell

When I visit a church, I like to visit as if I am going to church for the first time to try and envision how a first time visitor would feel. These are all experiences either I have had visiting churches for the first time, or that friends of mine have had. I have combined them into a quasi-fictional account, as if all the experiences happened on a single Sunday, and I was indeed a first time visitor to church. I will tell you the purpose behind the story at the end of the posting.

I visited a church today. It was my first time in many years, but we had been having family difficulties, and a friend had suggested that a good church might be a good place to find help.

We wanted to go to the closest one, unfortunately it had no service time of its church sign, which looked like it had seen better days. So I tried the church website, no luck there, the church did not have one. I then tried the phone book, no answer on the first try, and no recorded message either, the second try I did get someone, (not sure who), who brusquely told me that the service was at 11:00 a.m.

So Sunday morning arrived, we decided we wanted to be early, so we got there at 10:55. The parking lot was full (I found out later that if fills up for Sunday School at 9:30). There was not much street parking available, but we finally found a spot 3 blocks away. By the time we got to the church, it was 11:05. Part of me wanted to just turn around and go home at that time, but we decided to persevere.

The church had two sets of doors. We were not sure which ones to go in, but settled on the big main doors. We cautiously opened the doors to the church to find… a completely empty room. After what seemed like at eternity, we heard singing coming from the double doors in front of us. A sign above the doors read “Sanctuary”, though I wasn’t sure what that meant. I slowly opened up these doors and I could see that we were entering in at the back of an auditorium. A man seated on a chair at the back, waved a folded piece of paper in our face. “Here”, he said, “you will need one of these”. It was program of sorts, though I could find no list of what was about to occur.

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Choose your mess

Dec 22, 2008

By Nigel Barham (Originally posted at nigelbarham.com Used with permission.)

So:

-I have issues
-You have issues
-Those we work with have issues
-Those we interact with have issues

Add it all up and you get one big mess.

But a mess is what Jesus chose to be born into when he arrived on this planet. 12 messes were what he chose for 12 disciples. The Kingdom of God emerging from the mess was what he preached. Eventually he died for the mess.

Today, he is merciful enough to save messes like me; gracious enough to work in messes like me; generous enough to work through messes like me; and patient enough to stick with messes like me (despite frequent royal screw-ups).

Whatever you choose to do in the Kingdom of God, expect a mess. Remember that you are part of the mess. Be gracious with the messes (people) around you. While you’re at it, have fun. Don’t take yourself too seriously. Be a pleasure to be around. Avoid the ‘spiritual gift’ of speck-spotting (Matthew 7:3). Work hard. Do stuff when you don’t feel like it. Smile.

The alternatives to not being in a mess are: (1) another mess, (2) pulling out altogether. Since the latter is not an option biblically…

Choose your mess.


Distractions from the Gospel – Part 3: Church Contentment

Dec 11, 2008

By Michael Bell

Here is the Intro, Part 1, and Part 2.

Distractions from the Gospel – Part 3: Church Contentment

A few years ago I helped administer a survey of the members and adherents of the church that we were attending. One thing that we were able to determine from the survey was that by and large people were quite happy with ministries of the church, and weren’t looking to make and significant changes. When we shared these results with the District Superintendent (think Bishop), he cautioned us. “Let me be prophetic here”, he said, “Churches which are largely content with the way things are, and are not open to change, tend to stagnate, plateau, and even die.” Indeed he was rather prophetic, and within three years the church had closed its doors.
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An Interview with Bruxy Cavey

Nov 11, 2008
bruxy_cavey

Bruxy Cavey

By Joel Black
OK, so here is my first post at Eclectic Christian (other than my self-introduction).

The original interview is posted at Irreligious Life but I am more than happy to share it here because it is SO good.  Bruxy is the teaching pastor at The Meeting House and the author of The End of Religion.

I.R.: Let’s begin with a fun question. Tell us in one sentence or less what you have learned from the following people:

Bruxy:

N.T. Wright: We must be vigorous to understand Jesus in his Jewish historical context or else we will tend to project our own ideals into his teaching.

Homer Simpson: Somebody other than God really understands me.

Brian McLaren: Gentleness and Respect really do look good on a person.

Your wife Nina : Brains and beauty really can coexist. (And/Or… Good humour needs no secondary justification. It is self-justifying. Laughter is just good.)

Your best friend (Greg): The simple life is the good life.

Modandas Gandhi: Jesus’ teaching should be taken seriously.

The Dalai Lama: Smile!


I.R.: Here are some questions about your book.

What is the book about?

Bruxy: Jesus.

I.R.: Why did you write this book?

Bruxy: I’m not one of those people who have always wanted to write a book. To be plainly honest – I hate writing. But I love Jesus, and I want to do my part to get his message as wide an exposure as possible. At our church, The Meeting House (www.themeetinghouse.ca), we felt together that it could be useful to gather up some of the teaching we’ve been processing over the years and make it available in book form. Some people will learn about Jesus best by being invited to a lecture. Others will learn best in dialogue. Others will read a book. So I was commissioned by my church to write The End of Religion as a tool for our church to use to help better communicate the message of Jesus

I.R.: Who did you write the book for?

Bruxy: There are lots of books written to Christians about how to explain the Good News of Jesus to their non-Christian friends. I wanted a book to function as a bridge-builder between Christians and non-Christians; a book that was addressed directly to non-Christians yet which Christians could also read and be challenged by.

I.R.: What do you hope is the outcome for writing this book?

Bruxy: My hope is that The End of Religion can function as a kind of meeting place for people of diverse spiritual backgrounds to come together and talk about this central figure of history and his radical spirituality. I have already received wonderful feedback about how this is happening in book clubs and other venues and it does my heart good to know the book is being put to such good use.

I.R.: In the book you talk about the “Water and Wine Scandal.” Jesus’ first public miracle at the wedding in Cana is an illustration of how he undermines religion. Can you give us another example from Jesus’ life where he undermines religion?

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Miracle on 34th Street Ecumenism

Oct 27, 2008

By Michael Spencer

Moderators note:  This post was previously published by Michael Spencer at Internet Monk.  I believe it captures a good part of the spirit of what we are trying to accomplish at Eclectic Christian and so asked Michael Spencer’s permission to republish it here. – Michael Bell

I love Christmas movies. We have many great family memories of watching Emmet Otter’s Jug Band Christmas or singing “Sisters” and “Snow” with the cast of White Christmas. I have some personal favorites like almost any version of A Christmas Carol, the original Tim Allen Santa Clause and the strangely dark and mysterious Prancer.

I’m not a fan of the popular Christmas film Miracle on 34th Street. I’ve watched it 3 or 4 times, and maybe I just wasn’t quite in that particular frame of mind where a Christmas movie really appeals to me, but it’s never been a favorite of mine.

But there is something about “Miracle” that does appeal to me. We can call it “Miracle on 34th Street Ecumenism.”

In the story, the supposedly insane Kris Kringle (Santa to the unintitated) is inspired with a plan. The two large downtown New York department stores can change the way they compete with one another. Instead of making the other store the enemy, they could each take a more gracious view of one another. (At least at Christmas.)

How did that work? Each store did what stores do: they tried to offer the best products at the best prices to the most customers. But when the other store had a better product at a better price, you cheerfully sent the customer to the other store, with best wishes and the simple recognition that your store couldn’t do everything.

This change in behavior and attitude sparks a revolution in the retail jungle. Long time competitors treating one another with respect? With grace? With generosity? Actually recommending that someone go to the other store? And spend money?

Isn’t that unthinkable?

No…it actually sounds like Jesus and his upside down Kingdom. (It actually sounds like St. Nicholas, too. But that’s another story.)

What if Kris Kringle’s crazy idea became the model for ecumenism?

What if we all recognized that we get some things right, but we also get a lot of things wrong? And what if we recognized that some other traditions get the things right that we get wrong?
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Counting Canada’s Christians – Part 2 – Anecdotally

Sep 2, 2008

Recently I was asked by someone to comment on his statement that “Roman Catholics are not Christians.” I find that this is a blanket statement with which I do NOT agree. I wish to show evidence for my disagreement both statistically and anecdotally.

In the first part I looked at the question statistically, primarily using data from Statistics Canada, and from the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada.

In this second part I will focus on an anecdotal analysis.

2. Andecotal Analysis

I feel I need to offer a bit of a disclaimer, largely because of some comments that I got in part 1. I am not a Catholic, I am an Evangelical Protestant. I am not a Catholic because there are a number of Catholic doctrines that I do not believe in, and what I believe is very important to me. In my mind, some of these differences are significant, others are minor. I don’t feel it is important to list the differences here as I don’t really want to get into arguments about what should or shouldn’t be in the lists.

I would also like to reiterate from part 1, that salvation is found only through faith in Jesus Christ. What I like to look for in a person, is a definite commitment to faith in Christ, adherence to the early basic creeds of Christianity (I am sorry, but if you don’t affirm the divinity of Christ then you are not a Christian), and I look for the fruit of the Spirit. (Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, Self control) Of course, only God knows a person’s heart, and when the final judgment comes I am sure that I am going to find surprises on both sides of the ledger.

In that final judgment, one of my biggest surprises is going to be how many things I got wrong. Even in those areas where I am pretty sure I have my theology right there is likely to be a few shocks.   So when I write what I write, I do it with a certain amount of humbleness knowing that just because I disagree with someone, doesn’t mean that I am right.  The other person may be right, or we may both be wrong.

Much of my theology I find has been shaped by reaction against what I have seen in my own previous traditions.  I have found that those who have left a particular tradition tend to be its strongest critics as they are so focused on what was bad in their old tradition that they cannot see the good.  As anyone who has read my profile knows, I have appreciated much from the various traditions to which I have been exposed, but in some cases it took a long time to focus on the good that I experienced in a particular tradition, and focus less on the bad.  This tendency to focus on the negative of a previous tradition was very well described by C. Michael Patton in his post Converting from Evangelicalism a few weeks ago.  He wrote:

From what I have seen, converts are sometimes the most unable to see things with a balanced perspective. Because of their belief that their previous faith commitments betrayed them, they approach issues as “enlightened” warriors against those former allegiances. The problem is that they normally wear their bitterness on their sleeve and this further taints the glasses that they think they are not wearing.

He goes on to say that:

Misrepresentation, ironically, abounds in these circumstances. They feel as if being a convert gives them a pass to say anything they want. “Don’t tell me what they believe, I used to be one!”

So how does this relate to this post.  I have known both Evangelicals who have become Catholics and Catholics who have become Evangelicals.    I have been told by some former Roman Catholics what Roman Catholics believe.  Are they accurate in their assessments?  I really am not a good one to judge, as I have so little experience in this area, but my feeling is that generally their objectivity has been been clouded by their previous experiences.

Take the topic of Mary worship for example.  Do Catholics worship Mary?  Some former Roman Catholics say yes.   Catholic doctrine says no, she is to be venerated but not worshipped.  Maybe some do worship Mary, but my own experience has been that the Roman Catholics that I have come in contact with over the years have not done so.

Let me introduce you to two of them.

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In Defence of Liturgical Worship

Jul 27, 2008

worshipI must admit that I have had limited exposure to liturgical worship. What I have seen I appreciate. These days the only exposure I tend to get to it is through the occasional visit to my sister-in-law’s church. Admittedly, her church does liturgy well. She is part of a very excellent church choir which has been selected to sing (check out the practice video) at both St. Paul’s Cathedral in London, and St. Patrick’s Cathedral in Dublin. So when I say I have an appreciation for liturgical worship, it is in the context of what I expect from all musical styles of worship that it be done with the pursuit of excellence.

My sister-in-law has had exposure to both evangelical and liturgical traditions, but has come to appreciate more the style of worship in a liturgical tradition. In many ways I think that her thoughts would echo those of Michael Spencer, who wrote some time ago that:

One of my favorite times in the worship service is the congregational confession. Standing together, saying in unity the words that agree we are all failures and all in need of grace, I really feel at home. It’s the same with the Apostle’s and Nicene Creeds, the Lord’s Prayer, questions from the catechisms and our weekly responsive Psalms. Together, as one body, no one showing off, we confess our sins, announce our faith and talk to God in the words He has given us.

Michael Spencer, like myself, was very influenced by the writings of Robert Webber. I would encourage you to read about his introduction to liturgical worship through Robert Webber. Much of what he writes I would want to echo. After reading, please come back here and answer these questions for me: Does what Michael Spencer wrote resonate with you. If no, then why not? If yes, then what do you think would be the best ways to introduce liturgical elements into our contemporary services?


Turning Music into Worship

Jul 26, 2008

worshipRecently, I have read quite a lot about contemporary versus traditional music used in churches. I think its time we took a step back and looked at our own heart attitude. When we let ourselves get all worked up about what type of music is played on a given Sunday, we lose our ability to worship. Worship is not about a particular style of music it is about our response to God.

God desires for us to be honestly seeking him, to be honestly responding to what he has done for us, and to love him with all our heart and soul and mind and strength. This is what true worship looks like. If the music helps us to respond in this way, great! If not, we still have the responsibility of giving God the honor he is due.

I particularly liked what Tyler had to write about the topic:

Often times we call music in church, worship. We have a genre of Christian music called worship. We call Sunday morning a worship service, and we have worship pastors. The list could go on.

When I think about music in church I almost automatically get caught up in musical style and the current really awesome “worship” song. The problem is that when worship becomes about those things, I don’t think it’s worship…it’s just music.

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In Defense of Family Based Worship

Jul 21, 2008

worshipTodd C. wrote what I feel is a very interesting comment to a blog post about the slow death of congregational singing. It is a problem that needs to be addressed.

I had commented that I have found over and over again that if you sing two songs in a service that the congregation is unfamiliar with you will lose most congregations. They will tend to switch off and not participate in the rest of the service. I also noted that you have to be very careful and intentional as to how you introduce songs. I think that many of us worship leaders need to take our big worship binders with the hundreds of songs we know, and say, OK, here are the songs that we are no longer going to sing, and reduce our existing repertoire to maybe 75 songs.

Todd’s response took a slightly different tack but one that is worth reading.

Musical language and expression in worship is undoubtedly changing stylistically from one generation to the next, but this isn’t a large problem. True, the rhythms and arrangements of contemporary music are very different from traditional hymns. True, newer songs are more relationship based and less theological, and tend to be more about experiencing God than about knowing facts about Him. It is certainly true that there are next to none which have stood the test of time of so many of the greatest hymns.

It is true that few of the younger generation entering the church doors are familiar with traditional hymn arrangement, and the ability to sing four part harmony is becoming increasingly rare. Unfortunately, use of “contemporary” music can sometimes appear to signal a willingness to abandon the old faithful in order to appeal to the younger crowd. But this needn’t be the case.

The larger picture is that church is perhaps the last place on earth where all generations come together and participate in something in common. The larger problem is that unity can sometimes be threatened when we become too concerned with whether we should be more contemporary versus more traditional. Those are only style preferences, and if one must have one’s own style preferences in order to “worship”, then perhaps one misunderstands the sacrificial nature of worshipping.

We each have our preferences, but we also have an opportunity to worship together as family, and with songs that stir the entire family, in its present composition, with an eye to equipping its present outward-focused mission, and across all the generations.

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In Defense of Contemporary Worship

Jul 18, 2008

worshipAs I pointed out in a previous posting, I have read a lot of criticism of contemporary worship. I figured it was time to offer a defense.

1. Contemporary worship allows us to worship God in our own “language”. In many senses it is similar to when the Bible first got translated into the vernacular, and people no longer had to worship in Latin. Today, only a small percentage of people listen to classical music. Yes, many like myself appreciated classical, but it isn’t the music of my generation or the generations that have followed. In the same way that most evangelical churches have switched from the King James Version to the New International Version (and other versions), the move to contemporary music has also allowed Christians to worship God in their own heart language.

2. The extended worship that many churches have today has its basis in scripture. It reflects the praise that we see in the Psalms (and in many cases borrows directly from the Psalms) and it gives us a glimpse of what Heaven will be like. As I said in a comment to a previous post:

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