Who are we excluding?

Feb 19, 2009

By Michael Bell

I am not sure whether to laugh or cry when I read this joke. It was overheard at Internet Monk and attributed by Ed to Emo Philips.

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, “Don’t do it!” He said, “Nobody loves me.” I said, “God loves you. Do you believe in God?”

He said, “Yes.” I said, “Are you a Christian or a Jew?” He said, “A Christian.” I said, “Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me, too! What franchise?” He said, “Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?” He said, “Northern Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”

He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region.” I said, “Me, too!”

Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.” I said, “Die, heretic!” And I pushed him over.

This strongly reminds me of how much we quibble over the smallest things, and are not generous with those who differ slightly from what we believe. Pastors and denominational leaders, take a good look at your membership requirements. What is essential to the gospel? What other things can you put aside in order to fellowship with someone in your church and call him brother. Who are you excluding that Jesus has already included?

Your thoughts and comments are welcome.

7 Comments | division, Eclectic Christian, Gospel, Tolerance, unity | Permalink
Posted by Eclectic Christian

Another Eclectic Christian

Jan 28, 2009

Darrell Pursiful had this great quotation on his blog the other day. I think it helps communicate part of the vision of Eclectic Christian.

I like Pentecostal joy, Episcopalian reverence, Presbyterian order, Lutheran grace, Salvation Army service, Methodist experience, Catholic mystery and Disciples of Christ ecumenism. They are my friends, not my foes, my brothers and sisters, not enemies of my family.

Walter B. Shurden

1 Comment | Eclectic Christian | Permalink
Posted by Eclectic Christian

Close the Church of Christian Criticism

Jan 28, 2009

A guest post by Will Halloren

The Internet has been a real blessing to me. It has enabled me to continue my education, expand my Christian contacts [like you, I hope, dear reader], entertain myself with youtube and blog-reading and even help me to witness the Truth in love and minister to those in need. It also drives me right out of my mind.

In the past I could ignore those groups of people who say they are Christian, and may well be , yet practice something I find disturbing, like snake handling, or legalism. Now I am exposed to things I formerly was able to ignore. At the top of my personal Ignorance list was the existence of a cottage industry full of vehemence and bile, that group of people who say they are Christian and spend their lives criticizing everything that happens in a building with a cross on the roof. Don’t get me wrong, there are some loose wingnuts on the wheels of modern Christianity, and pointing out the insanity is healthy! I am not talking about those of us [me] who desire to point out wackos and frauds; I mean people who take on whole denominations, entire -faith-groups of mainstream believers, or really well known figureheads of the faith.

Is there any point in declaring Billy Graham to be anathema? All right he is old and says some odd things today, but have you read his stuff? Did you see his track record? If we were all anathema like Graham there would be a lot more Christians. Is it necessary for the Kingdom to declare John Macarthur a heretic? I have problems with dispensationalism, the whole Jesus just making a touch and go but not really landing is odd to me; I don’t own a Scofield, but MacArthur preaches the gospel! If you do a little googleing you can find somebody against anybody! It is not only individuals that get the indictment of heresy, the Southern Baptist Convention is working for the devil if you listen to some. Now I have been in the SBC tent for 12 years, there are issues. Are they apostasy? Are they anathema? Again, if you look you will find some group nailing away at another group as if they get paid a quarter a word.

Has the discernment of God’s people so decreased that we can not tell a Todd Bentley from a Ravi Zacharias? We can’t perceive a difference in message from Benny Hinn to Tim Keller? We can’t see a change in group dynamic from C.M.A. to the K.K.K.?

We need to read and follow Paul’s advise to the Philippians, “Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.” I listen to a lot of sermons. I am not seeking an error in another’s ways, I am seeking to be fed on the word of God. If there is something on the plate I do not like, I don’t throw the whole dish to the ground and condemn the cook, I take what I like and praise the meal.

Please look out of the box you live in. Look at Europe. Can you call it Christian? Have you seen England? Do you think we live in an age where we can pick each other apart without serving the Enemy? It just can’t be that hard to separate the wheat from the tares. People my age will remember the Supreme Court decision on pornography. In attempting to define it one judge said, “you know it when you see it.” That definition did not stick, but come on, you know it when you see it. I do not think you need a PhD in theology to know good doctrine from false. Good doctrine may not be perfect doctrine, but it is not purposely false. As for false doctrine, you know it when you see it, it is a lot like porn.

2 Comments | church life, criticism, Eclectic Christian, encouragement, heresy | Permalink
Posted by eclecticguest

An Ideal Evangelicalism?

Dec 15, 2008

By Michael Spencer (iMonk)

Moderators note:  Michael has graciously allowed us to repost this article at Eclectic Christian.

Somewhere in the previous orgy of comments I’ve had this week, someone asked me to write about “What do you see as the ideal evangelicalism?”

There is no ideal evangelicalism and there’s not going to be. It’s certainly not going to be ideal if I am the architect. So let’s not get out of hand here. I’m a blogger, which tells you about all you need to know on the subject of my credibility.

But that won’t stop me from answering the question in a slightly different form: “What would make for a much better evangelicalism?”

I promise the answers are going to be short.

Read the rest of this entry »

10 Comments | catholic, Eclectic Christian, Evangelical | Permalink
Posted by eclecticguest

Introducing Joel Black

Nov 11, 2008

Joel Black

Joel Black

Hi, I’m Joel Black and I started blogging at IrreligiousLife to provide a place for all of us to learn together how to follow Jesus. I have five children (4 boys and 1 girl) and my oldest is 5 years old!  They are great kids and I am so proud of my family.  I enjoy playing sports and am a beginner triathlete. More importantly, and more relevant to the conversation here at Eclectic, my wife and I are continually readjusting our lifestyles and re-evaluating our lives as we try to follow Jesus. My work as a “church planter” in Japan and my own experience as one whose life aim is to follow Jesus has forced me to think a lot about the Christian church. Most of what you will see from me here on this blog will be taken from books I am reading and from conversations with my wife. We are enjoying this journey together even though we are not always on the same page.  We often do end up on the same page eventually but that also is part of the joy of our journey.  I am looking forward to joining in the conversations here at Eclectic Christian as well!

The title for my blog, IrreligiousLife, was taken from The End of Religion: Encountering the Subversive Spirituality of Jesus by Bruxy Cavey (which I highly recommend) . . . and inspired by Bono who once said:

“I often wonder if religion is the enemy of God.

It’s almost like religion is what happens when the Spirit has left the building”

1 Comment | Eclectic Christian | Permalink
Posted by IrreligiousLife

Reintroducing Michael Bell

Oct 27, 2008

Welcome to Eclectic Christian.  As you may have noticed, Eclectic Christian has gone through some fairly significant changes.  We have a new look and we have added two new authors, Tim Melton and Joshua Hearne.  The information in this post was originally in the “About” page, but as that information is changing I wanted somewhere to keep my own introduction.  Hence this post.

My name is Mike Bell, and I am using this site to share my thoughts on a diverse Christian world.  I call this site Eclectic Christian, because that is truely what I am.  In my Christian journey I have learned to appreciate many different facets of Christianity.

  • I have appreciated the emphasis on the written word of God from my days in Christian Brethren and Baptist circles.
  • I have appreciated the emphasis on the Holy Spirit from my days in Christian and Missionary Alliance and Pentecostal Circles.
  • I have appreciated the ability of the Christian and Missionary Alliance to find common ground with-in themselves on areas of doctrine with which all their members may not agree.
  • I have appreciated the strong sense of history and interest in the early church that I have found among some of my Catholic friends.
  • I appreciate the care for the disenfranchised and for the environment found in the United Church of Canada.
  • I appreciate the fresh music that has been introduced to our worship services from the Vineyard churches.
  • I appreciate the focus on the church year that I have found in Anglican churches that I have visited.
  • I appreciate the salvation message that is being emphasized in a variety of evangelical churches.
  • I appreciate the way that many Reformed churches have an emphasis on family.
  • I appreciate the emphasis on church planting found within the Christian and Missionary Alliance.
  • I appreciate the Missions emphasis that I find in my Christian Brethren, Brethren in Christ, and Alliance roots.
  • I appreciate that it is possible for Christians of many different backgrounds to worship, pray, and study God’s word together as I found during my years in InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.

In short, I want to emphasize that which I find good about the way that others are seeking to follow Christ.

Although I am accredited to be a Pastor with the Christian and Missionary Alliance, I work full time as an Internet Web Application Developer and Database Developer. Between work, and a busy family life, (wonderful wife and 3 kids) I manage to keep myself pretty occupied, so I will be blogging about twice a week.

The picture below is a view over the town of Dundas, Ontario.  (My house is a tiny spec in the center of the picture.)  I have a heart for Dundas and want to see the church of Dundas doing more to reach its community for Christ.

Dundas, Ontario

Dundas, Ontario

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Miracle on 34th Street Ecumenism

Oct 27, 2008

By Michael Spencer

Moderators note:  This post was previously published by Michael Spencer at Internet Monk.  I believe it captures a good part of the spirit of what we are trying to accomplish at Eclectic Christian and so asked Michael Spencer’s permission to republish it here. – Michael Bell

I love Christmas movies. We have many great family memories of watching Emmet Otter’s Jug Band Christmas or singing “Sisters” and “Snow” with the cast of White Christmas. I have some personal favorites like almost any version of A Christmas Carol, the original Tim Allen Santa Clause and the strangely dark and mysterious Prancer.

I’m not a fan of the popular Christmas film Miracle on 34th Street. I’ve watched it 3 or 4 times, and maybe I just wasn’t quite in that particular frame of mind where a Christmas movie really appeals to me, but it’s never been a favorite of mine.

But there is something about “Miracle” that does appeal to me. We can call it “Miracle on 34th Street Ecumenism.”

In the story, the supposedly insane Kris Kringle (Santa to the unintitated) is inspired with a plan. The two large downtown New York department stores can change the way they compete with one another. Instead of making the other store the enemy, they could each take a more gracious view of one another. (At least at Christmas.)

How did that work? Each store did what stores do: they tried to offer the best products at the best prices to the most customers. But when the other store had a better product at a better price, you cheerfully sent the customer to the other store, with best wishes and the simple recognition that your store couldn’t do everything.

This change in behavior and attitude sparks a revolution in the retail jungle. Long time competitors treating one another with respect? With grace? With generosity? Actually recommending that someone go to the other store? And spend money?

Isn’t that unthinkable?

No…it actually sounds like Jesus and his upside down Kingdom. (It actually sounds like St. Nicholas, too. But that’s another story.)

What if Kris Kringle’s crazy idea became the model for ecumenism?

What if we all recognized that we get some things right, but we also get a lot of things wrong? And what if we recognized that some other traditions get the things right that we get wrong?
Read the rest of this entry »

Comments Off | church growth, church life, Eclectic Christian, encouragement | Permalink
Posted by eclecticguest

Exciting times ahead for Eclectic Christian

Oct 22, 2008

I am excited about the future potential of Eclectic Christian as we have added two more authors to the site. Joshua Hearne and Tim Melton are going to be joining us as regular contributors. I have met both of them through interaction with them through Eclectic Christian, their own blogs, or other blogs on the net. I will let them more fully introduce themselves through their own posts, but here is a quick summary of what they are currently doing.

Joshua is a Baptist Pastor who is specializing in spiritual formation. His blog, Telling the stories that matter, focuses on introducing us to many of the great Christians of the past. If you have an interest in Church History, it is a wonderful resource.

Tim Melton is a Presbyterian Pastor, who is a fan of C.S. Lewis, and Football (The American Variety). Someday I will have to have him up to Canada to introduce him to the much superior three down game. Tim’s own blog, Sacrosanct Gospel, like Eclectic Christian, also emphasizes the need to focus on the centrality of the gospel of Christ.

As for myself, for those who don’t know me, I am accredited with the Christian and Missionary Alliance in Canada, which is quite possibly Canada’s fastest growing denomination. I have worked the last number of years as an Internet Web Developer, and as there is no Alliance church in our area, our church home is at a North American Baptist Church.

So I am looking forward to a wonderful new season at Eclectic Christian. Eclectic Christian will still be emphasizing that which we find good about the way that others are seeking to follow Christ, no matter what their tradition. And of course we will be working on layout changes to the site to reflect our new working relationship.

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Posted by Eclectic Christian

New domain for Eclectic Christian.

Sep 2, 2008

You can now find us at http://eclecticchristian.com

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Counting Canada’s Christians – Part 2 – Anecdotally

Sep 2, 2008

Recently I was asked by someone to comment on his statement that “Roman Catholics are not Christians.” I find that this is a blanket statement with which I do NOT agree. I wish to show evidence for my disagreement both statistically and anecdotally.

In the first part I looked at the question statistically, primarily using data from Statistics Canada, and from the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada.

In this second part I will focus on an anecdotal analysis.

2. Andecotal Analysis

I feel I need to offer a bit of a disclaimer, largely because of some comments that I got in part 1. I am not a Catholic, I am an Evangelical Protestant. I am not a Catholic because there are a number of Catholic doctrines that I do not believe in, and what I believe is very important to me. In my mind, some of these differences are significant, others are minor. I don’t feel it is important to list the differences here as I don’t really want to get into arguments about what should or shouldn’t be in the lists.

I would also like to reiterate from part 1, that salvation is found only through faith in Jesus Christ. What I like to look for in a person, is a definite commitment to faith in Christ, adherence to the early basic creeds of Christianity (I am sorry, but if you don’t affirm the divinity of Christ then you are not a Christian), and I look for the fruit of the Spirit. (Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, Self control) Of course, only God knows a person’s heart, and when the final judgment comes I am sure that I am going to find surprises on both sides of the ledger.

In that final judgment, one of my biggest surprises is going to be how many things I got wrong. Even in those areas where I am pretty sure I have my theology right there is likely to be a few shocks.   So when I write what I write, I do it with a certain amount of humbleness knowing that just because I disagree with someone, doesn’t mean that I am right.  The other person may be right, or we may both be wrong.

Much of my theology I find has been shaped by reaction against what I have seen in my own previous traditions.  I have found that those who have left a particular tradition tend to be its strongest critics as they are so focused on what was bad in their old tradition that they cannot see the good.  As anyone who has read my profile knows, I have appreciated much from the various traditions to which I have been exposed, but in some cases it took a long time to focus on the good that I experienced in a particular tradition, and focus less on the bad.  This tendency to focus on the negative of a previous tradition was very well described by C. Michael Patton in his post Converting from Evangelicalism a few weeks ago.  He wrote:

From what I have seen, converts are sometimes the most unable to see things with a balanced perspective. Because of their belief that their previous faith commitments betrayed them, they approach issues as “enlightened” warriors against those former allegiances. The problem is that they normally wear their bitterness on their sleeve and this further taints the glasses that they think they are not wearing.

He goes on to say that:

Misrepresentation, ironically, abounds in these circumstances. They feel as if being a convert gives them a pass to say anything they want. “Don’t tell me what they believe, I used to be one!”

So how does this relate to this post.  I have known both Evangelicals who have become Catholics and Catholics who have become Evangelicals.    I have been told by some former Roman Catholics what Roman Catholics believe.  Are they accurate in their assessments?  I really am not a good one to judge, as I have so little experience in this area, but my feeling is that generally their objectivity has been been clouded by their previous experiences.

Take the topic of Mary worship for example.  Do Catholics worship Mary?  Some former Roman Catholics say yes.   Catholic doctrine says no, she is to be venerated but not worshipped.  Maybe some do worship Mary, but my own experience has been that the Roman Catholics that I have come in contact with over the years have not done so.

Let me introduce you to two of them.

Read the rest of this entry »

4 Comments | catholic, church life, Eclectic Christian, Evangelical, faith | Permalink
Posted by Eclectic Christian

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