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	<title>Eclectic Christian &#187; heresy</title>
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		<title>Eclectic Christian &#187; heresy</title>
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		<title>Close the Church of Christian Criticism</title>
		<link>http://eclecticchristian.com/2009/01/28/close-the-church-of-christian-criticism/</link>
		<comments>http://eclecticchristian.com/2009/01/28/close-the-church-of-christian-criticism/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>eclecticguest</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Eclectic Christian]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church life]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[criticism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[encouragement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[heresy]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eclecticchristian.com/?p=672</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A guest post by Will Halloren The Internet has been a real blessing to me. It has enabled me to continue my education, expand my Christian contacts [like you, I hope, dear reader], entertain myself with youtube and blog-reading and even help me to witness the Truth in love and minister to those in need. [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=eclecticchristian.com&blog=3783877&post=672&subd=eclecticchristian&ref=&feed=1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A guest post by <a href="http://willohroots.wordpress.com/">Will Halloren</a></p>
<p>The Internet has been a real blessing to me.  It has enabled me to continue my education,  expand my Christian contacts [like you, I hope, dear reader], entertain myself with youtube and blog-reading and even help me to witness the Truth in love and minister to those in need. It also drives me right out of my mind.</p>
<p>In  the past I could ignore those groups of people who say they are Christian, and may well be , yet practice something I find disturbing, like snake handling, or legalism.   Now I am exposed to things I formerly  was able to ignore.  At the top of my personal  Ignorance list was the existence of a cottage industry full of vehemence and bile, that group of people who say they are Christian and spend their lives criticizing everything that happens in a building with a cross on the roof.  Don’t get me wrong,  there are some loose wingnuts on the wheels of modern Christianity,  and pointing out the insanity is healthy!  I am not talking about those of us [me] who desire to point out wackos and frauds;  I mean people who take on whole denominations, entire -faith-groups  of mainstream believers, or really well known figureheads of the faith. </p>
<p>Is there any point in declaring Billy Graham to be anathema?  All right he is old and says some odd things today, but have you read his stuff? Did you see his track record? If we were all anathema like Graham there would be a lot more Christians.  Is it necessary for the Kingdom to declare John Macarthur a heretic?  I have problems with dispensationalism, the whole Jesus just making a touch and go but not really landing is odd to me; I don’t own a Scofield,  but MacArthur preaches the gospel!  If you do a little googleing you can find somebody against anybody!  It is not only individuals that get the indictment of heresy,  the Southern Baptist Convention is working for the devil if you listen to some.  Now I have been in the SBC tent for 12 years,  there are issues.  Are they apostasy? Are they anathema?  Again, if you look you will find some group nailing away at another group as if they get paid a quarter a word. </p>
<p>Has the discernment of God’s people so decreased that we can not tell a Todd Bentley from a Ravi Zacharias? We  can’t perceive a difference in message from Benny Hinn to Tim Keller? We can’t see a change in group dynamic from C.M.A. to the K.K.K.? </p>
<p>We need to read and follow Paul’s advise to the Philippians, “Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.”  I listen to a lot of sermons.   I am not seeking an error in another’s ways, I am seeking to be fed on the word of God.  If there is something on the plate I do not like, I don’t throw the whole dish to the ground and condemn the cook,  I take what I like and praise the meal. </p>
<p>Please look out of the box you live in.  Look at Europe.  Can you call it Christian?  Have you seen England?  Do you think we live in an age where we can pick each other apart without serving the Enemy?  It just can’t be that hard to separate the wheat from the tares.  People my age will remember the Supreme Court decision on pornography.  In attempting to define it one judge said, “you know it when you see it.”  That definition did not stick, but come on, you know it when you see it.  I do not think you need a PhD in theology to know good doctrine from false.  Good doctrine may not be perfect doctrine, but it is not purposely false.  As for false doctrine, you know it when you see it, it is a lot like porn.</p>
<br />Posted in church life, criticism, Eclectic Christian, encouragement, heresy  <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/672/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/672/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/672/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/672/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/672/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/672/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/672/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/672/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/672/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/672/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=eclecticchristian.com&blog=3783877&post=672&subd=eclecticchristian&ref=&feed=1" />]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Ruminations on Sheep</title>
		<link>http://eclecticchristian.com/2008/12/11/ruminations-on-sheep/</link>
		<comments>http://eclecticchristian.com/2008/12/11/ruminations-on-sheep/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:37:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>peterofarabia</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Church History]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gospel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[crucifixion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[heresy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[work of Christ]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eclecticchristian.com/?p=436</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By Peter Heath I live in a Middle Eastern (Muslim) country, and currently I have 12 days off work due to National Day and Eid Al Adha celebrations.  We enjoyed the National Day fireworks from the roof of our apartment building (45 minutes of dual-source synchronized fireworks!).  And then we put ear plugs in so [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=eclecticchristian.com&blog=3783877&post=436&subd=eclecticchristian&ref=&feed=1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By Peter Heath</p>
<p>I live in a Middle Eastern (Muslim) country, and currently I have 12 days off work due to National Day and Eid Al Adha celebrations.  We enjoyed the National Day fireworks from the roof of our apartment building (45 minutes of dual-source synchronized fireworks!).  And then we put ear plugs in so we could go to sleep with all the young guys driving/honking//backfiring till 3 AM on our street.  We remind our kids that this qualifies as a cultural experience!</p>
<p>Eid Al Adha is the Muslim festival that comes at the end of the Hajj (required journey to Mecca) and about 6 weeks after the end of Ramadan.  It also commemorates Allah providing a ram so that Abraham didn&#8217;t actually have to sacrifice Ishmael.  (That is the Muslim take on it.)  Muslims normally slaughter and eat a sheep as part of the festival.  In years past, apartment staircases here have run red with the blood of slaughtered sheep, but now residents must take their sheep to authorized slaughter-centres that are set up for the occasion.  (Sort of reminds me of polling places appearing and disappearing over elections.)  So, a couple of days ago, i discovered a sheep in the parking lot of my building!  Didn&#8217;t take too much imagination to figure out what was going on.  This morning, Mr Sheepy was gone, and it looked like the short-term owner took the legal route on preparing his meal.  Fortunately for Mr. Sheepy, he didn&#8217;t have any clue what was waiting for him.  Sort of reminds me of many of my friends.</p>
<p>Like my hockey buddies (yes, ice hockey).  A couple of nights ago, HockeyGuy turned to me on the bench and says &#8220;I think Jesus showed us the ultimate example of humanity.&#8221;  I pulled out my CS Lewis Handbook and replied that Jesus claimed to be God, so either he was loony or else he was/is God.  Either way, you can&#8217;t take the &#8220;great man&#8221; approach.  HockeyGuy basically said to me &#8220;I don&#8217;t think the I-am-God stuff matters.  I just like the Great Moral Man stuff.&#8221;  Must be that post-modern mindset kicking in, i guess, that someone can pick and choose what they like or dislike about Jesus and totally ignore the rest.  Or is that just human nature?  Isn&#8217;t that what the Gnostics did so very long ago?  Anyway HockeyGuy, who *is* a good guy, doesn&#8217;t believe he needs a Saviour and misses out on Jesus as the Eternal Sacrifice.  Hmmm, kind of reminds me of all the Muslims i know&#8230;</p>
<br />Posted in Church History, crucifixion, Gospel, heresy, theology, work of Christ  <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/436/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/436/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/436/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/436/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/436/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/436/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/436/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/436/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/436/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/eclecticchristian.wordpress.com/436/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=eclecticchristian.com&blog=3783877&post=436&subd=eclecticchristian&ref=&feed=1" />]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>How does a Baptist define heresy?</title>
		<link>http://eclecticchristian.com/2008/05/13/how-does-a-baptist-define-heresy/</link>
		<comments>http://eclecticchristian.com/2008/05/13/how-does-a-baptist-define-heresy/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 17:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Eclectic Christian</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[apostles creed]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[catholic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church fathers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[heresy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[nicene creed]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[patristics]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[A recent post on a catholic site asked how Baptists would define heresy. I thought I would take a crack at responding. Here are my thoughts on the issue. Although the Baptist cry is &#8220;sola scriptura&#8221; (the bible only), the fact remains that many Baptists are interested in the Church Fathers because they have an [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=eclecticchristian.com&blog=3783877&post=20&subd=eclecticchristian&ref=&feed=1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A recent post on a catholic site asked how Baptists would define heresy. I thought I would take a crack at responding. Here are my thoughts on the issue.</p>
<p>Although the Baptist cry is &#8220;sola scriptura&#8221; (the bible only), the fact remains that many Baptists are interested in the Church Fathers because they have an interest in what the church looked like in the early days.</p>
<p>Historically, because of persecution, there has been a distrust of the state sponsored church, so when a Baptist looks at the early church, the role of the emperor Constantine appears to be a dividing line for what they will accept as uncorrupted theology.</p>
<p>So for a Baptist, scripture plus the first 300 years of the church largely defines what we have in common with other types of churches. What the church believed is summarized by the Apostles creed and the Nicene creed (both the 325 and 381 versions), all of which I have heard recited in Baptist, or baptistic churches.<span id="more-20"></span></p>
<p>I should note that at the Council of Ephesus (431) it was determined that &#8220;it is unlawful for any man to bring forward, or to write, or to compose a different (ἑτέραν) Faith as a rival to that established by the holy Fathers assembled with the Holy Ghost in Nicæa.&#8221; It is important to note that this third council affirmed the creed established in the first two councils as being the core of what Christians believed.</p>
<p>So how then would I define heresy? Heresy is that which runs contrary to these early creedal beliefs. Sure we may disagree about many things, and have different interpretations of many things, but we have together a basic set of core beliefs that we hold together.</p>
<p>So things that I would hold to be heresy would be things like:</p>
<ol>
<li>Denying the deity of Christ</li>
<li>Denying the incarnation</li>
<li>Denying God as creator</li>
<li>Denying the resurrection</li>
</ol>
<p>Things that are not covered by the creed I believe you should be able to have genuine differences of opinion on without being labeled a heretic. There are much better words that can be used!</p>
<p>For reference, here are the early creeds.</p>
<p>The apostles creed:</p>
<blockquote><p>1. I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.<br />
2. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.<br />
3. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.<br />
4. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.<br />
5. He descended into hell. On the third day he rose again.<br />
6. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.<br />
7. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.<br />
8. I believe in the Holy Spirit,<br />
9. the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints,<br />
10. the forgiveness of sins,<br />
11. the resurrection of the body,<br />
12. and the life everlasting.<br />
Amen.</p></blockquote>
<p>Here is the Nicene creed of 325:</p>
<blockquote><p>We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible.<br />
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;<br />
by whom all things were made [both in heaven and on earth];<br />
who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man;<br />
he suffered, and the third day he rose again, ascended into heaven;<br />
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.<br />
And in the Holy Ghost.</p></blockquote>
<p>Here is the revised Nicene creed of 381:</p>
<blockquote><p>We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.<br />
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;<br />
by whom all things were made;<br />
who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man;<br />
he was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried, and the third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father;<br />
from thence he shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead;<br />
whose kingdom shall have no end.<br />
And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets.<br />
In one holy catholic and apostolic Church<br />
we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins;<br />
we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.<br />
Amen.</p></blockquote>
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